In all of the classes I've taken, the final exam has not been a pivotal factor in determing whether I (or any other student) learned the content the class was intended to convey. So... I'm opposed to the idea of "testing out" of a class based solely on the final for the class, because I don't think the standard final works that way anyway; either it's "comprehensive", and therefore shallower on particular subjects than previous exams, or it covers only a portion of what the class covered.

On the other hand, if the exams administered for this process were comprehensive enough to cover all, or most, of the material covered in the class, then I'd be okay with that. Obviously, the tests would have to be at least slightly different than the tests for the students taking the class, which might be deemed an injustice by some students, but the students have to take tests, or complete projects, or write essays, that indicate they understand all of the components of the class. Why should that be different for students who test out? (There's the issue of time, obviously, and presumably one of the deciding factors in choosing to test out of a class would be time, but comprehensive tests on a subject could still be administered without dedicating an entire semester to it.)

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I think that in classes where it's "Midterm 50%, Final 50%" as the basis for the grades, testing out works fine. Otherwise, you've got to complete the rest of the work (or not!) in order to show that you've mastered the material to the same degree that the other students have. One final exam, however comprehensive, does not equate to projects and papers and such, if those are the components of the real class in question.

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I Can't speak to anything else--but I think completing an AP exam typically (but not always) indicates a completion of a similar (to some extent) course. It shouldn't be used to buck major requirements--no credit past the 200-level, I think. I do, however, think that there's nothing wrong with demonstrating the preliminary knowledge required to skip (and receive credit for) early level classes.

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Well, I wasn't trying to indicate that one test alone would be sufficient; that's why I used plural "tests." But as I didn't make that explicit in my comment, I can see how it might come across otherwise. But... yes, I agree with what you said.

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I agree with you. In my classes, the most important part was the discussion. If you already know the subject well, fantastic! You can add a lot to the discussion.

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the single most valuable part of a liberal arts education is the opportunity to regularly sit in a room with other intelligent people and bounce ideas off of each other. sometimes it's not even the knew knowledge you internalize from a course that's important, it's how the process of learning it affected the way you think. fact-jamming courses (like many APs, a lot of science/math/compsci courses perhaps) could do fine with letting people test out (like, if you can test out of chem 203 straight into orgo, hell go for it, all you're missing is a crowded lecture hall) (well, and also professor orwoll's last-day-of-class "rainbow connection" demonstration, that was pretty freaking awesome). maybe all classes with <40 people in them must actually be sat through?

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as an aside, oh my freaking god i can't stop thinking about harry potter i am so absurdly excited nothing else in my brain will work properly.

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see, that'd work for WM, but somewhere huge (say, Ohio State), then you could AP right into a friggin' degree. (or close)

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And you can do that at Louisiana. Apparently. I was just arguing that you shouldn't be able to, because it cheapens the degree. But I hadn't taken into account the likelihood that ALL their classes are probably >40 people. Hmm.

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regardless, I like WM's requirement--to get the degree, you have to take the last half of the total required credits there. I see nothing wrong with getting credit for preliminary stuff.

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Yup--because a degree implies that you took courses at a given university. Early-level courses really don't matter, but the courses where you start doing significant work (major courses, esp.) DO.

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